Her: so what's his haskafa now?
me: seems to be frum but not in a box
her: vague but ok and i don't know if this is too personal to ask before even meeting, but how much did he take out in loans to go to school?
me: yeah i dont know that much. well from my understanding he works so he's paid for most of it
her: and what are his prospects for actually getting into med school?
and he got money from the armybec- med school is about 9 years- so 10 years from now he'll be done
not horrible as it sounds- but still- we'll be 36
Me: prospects meaning schools? or money? grades?
haha 36 thats not freaky at all
Her: you barely get anything from the israeli army
Me: i think he got 10k
yeah i obviously dont know that much about him
and im not such a fan of the whole med school thing but im willing to give him a shot
Her: for sure
just wanted to give you some of the q's i learnt are impt abt med school specifically
Me: thanks
i def thought of u when i found this part out
he was just the first decent guy that came up
so i couldnt just blow it off
Her: med school sucks even if the guy makes it thru
you would need to support the two of you for at least 4 yrs
since you only start geting paid in 5th yr
Me: yeah yeah sounds like super fun
ugh im never gonna get married
;PPPP
not frustrated in the least
;PPP
Her: and if you had kids, you need to realize he wouldn't ever- even after school- be able to do a 50/50 split of the parenting
listen- i'm not saying it's wrong
i'm saying you really need to be honest with yourself if that is a lifestyle you could not be bitter about
Me: no i agree with u. its not the life style i want but is that a reason to say no?
Her: yes actually
Me: if everything else matches up (not that i know that for sure)
Her: you were married once to a guy who committed himself to a lot of other responsibilites and it made you miserable when he only came home for a couple hours each night where he was actually awake
Me: for me a definite no is to someone learning,
but this? im not sure
Her; for some ppl that's fine- but you got really depressed- and obviously there were other issues- but this is a biggie
doctors can't be there for you whenever you need them to be emotionally
Me: yes bc those few hours together were miserable, but had we gotten aliong and had mutual repsect for each other and actually appreciated each other, those "other' activitied wouldnt have bothered me as much
Her: they have one of the highest rates of divorce cuz of this
Me: haha
Her: it's not a joke
maybe you fought more bec he wasn't around as much as you needed
or maybe thst really had nothing to do w it
but just really think on it bef getting involved
Me: iim not really laughing
Her: ppl rationalize a lot once they're actually in a relationship
Me: truthfully i dont have the answers
Her: you can't until you live it
me: yeah i know
sigh
Her: but you can know yourself enough to think about how much you need the other person to be available to you to be happpy
it was the thing i hated the most about moshe wanting to go to med school
Me: i agree with that. and i also know that im a totally dif person than i was first time around
my needs are totally different.
Her: i'm pretty independent- even within our relationship
Me: yeah i hear
Her: but i have been sick as balls throughout this pregnancy and i would've cried my whole way through it if i was always alone
and i really don't want to be a single parent within a marriage
Me: well im glad u have him now. thank god for small miracles
Her: speak to z
she struggles with this a lot
b'li ayin harah
Me: i guess ive just really adapted to being alone all the time, so the thought doesnt phase me as much
maybe im desensitized
Her: it's dif when you know you're alone
it's easier- mentally- to be a single parent (sometimes)- then it is to be married but doing 90% of the parenting
cuz you keep expecting the other person to chip in, but they just aren't capable
did that make sense?
Me: for sure
her: like- you keep thinking that they can pick up the kids from school if you're sick, or show up to their school functions, or help plan a party- but they can't
Me: it just doesnt make me feel any better
Her: speak to z
she would know more abt the struggles of this type of lifestyle than me
and then you can make an educated decision to get involved with this guy
i'm not trying to be super negative or tell you this is a bad idea
Me: i actually thought about z last night
Her: i'm trying to lay out the facts of this situation- so you can go into it with real expectations
Me: but i think in the end of the day, theyre one of the greatest couples i know. i dont think shed give up her life w s. i think its a long run kind of picture
i honestly have no expectations
thats one of my problems
Her: true- but i know she's miserable right now
to the point where i would say she may be clinically depressed
Me: really?
thats bad
Her: i'm not a professional
Her: and shes having a third
yeah but u have enough knowlede about it
Her: but she seems so down and she's always bringing up how hard it is when i do see her
Me: yeah i noticed that
Her: it's not a question of whether at this point she would give up her life w s
it's a question of- if she could have all the info she has now abt how it would really affect her mentally, would she have tried to find someone else
Me: the question is would i want an amazing husband like shua, knowing what life would be like
i dont think she would
Her: also- part of the amazingness is how understanding she is
like when he comes over alone on sundays to watch the game for 4 hours
Me: so ur saying that i might not be that understanding?
Her: that would not go over well w me
Me: he still does that
yikes
nor me
Her: yes i am saying you are not z
and neither am i
Me: right
Her: someone else's good marriage would not be mine or yours
it's where the idea that there is someone for everyone comes from
Me: true true
ugh why do i have to go through this again
Her: fuck if i know
Me: sometimes i wonder if it would have just been easier to stay in my marriage
not that i had much of a choice
Her: no
i can tell you that in no uncertain terms
Me: my memory is def tainted
ha
that sounds like a good poem
tainted memory
Her: boo
Me: yes?
Her: there are ppl who may have had some hope for a happy life who chose to get divorced instead
you guys did not
you wanted dif things
you needed dif things
and you were both miserable bec they were uncompromisable
Me: but its funny (or not so funny) that a lot of things that i didnt want then, are things i want now
Her like sending your kids to TI?
Me: ha
Her or wearing tights in the summer?
Me: i wonder if he'll even send his kids there
Her: or having a husband who learns for two hours a night
Me: it was more the point of lack of being able to compromise on anything
Her: some things cannot be compromised
and somethings can be
maybe he compromised on not freaking when you wore flip flops and not hose in the summer
Me: listen, if i met a guy and he wanted a chavrusa and he was really smart and was actually learning and gaining something. and was able to bring that home and share it at our shabbos table, i wouldnt be so against it
what bothered me so much is how unproductive he was in his "super" frumness
Her: but both of you knew that he wanted a aidel super frummy
Me: and yet he listened to rap and had no problem watching a naked woman in a movie
Her: either way- my point was to drive home that the grass was not greener over there
Me: i couldnt find justification in that
the grass was def not greener
Her: case in point- how much weight did you gain during your marriage?
bec that is one of the greatest indicators sometimes
Me: my point is- would i rather be married and unhappy or never get remarried
and im not sure
Her: those shouldn't be the trade off
and miserable w someone is always worse
i cried way less when i was back in america and moshe was in rehab and i was contemplating divorce, than i did while i was still in israel
being w someone who is supposed to be someone who is making your life more joyous, and who is doing the complete opposite, is worse than being alone
and maybe i don't have complete authority to say that since i didn't end up choosing divorce
but i have seen enough of my parents, and other who chose divorce, and others who chose to stay married
sure- there are good parts even within a bad marriage
Me: i cant tell u what authority u do and dont have. but i dont think uve seen both worlds completley
Her: but how screwed up are our friends whose parents have the worst marriages but chose to stay together?
Me: and yes obviously like i said my memories are tainted. i remember only what i want to remember.
Her: i know i haven't
that's a coping mechanism
i'm still married bec i'm the same way
Me: and for me to think that i will never be married again is a very painful thought that i try and avoid
Her: i can't imagine
it's hard for me as your friend
but it was also painful to see you going through the last part of your marriagte
the goal is to be happy an fulfilled
and the reason i bring up kids a lot- is bec sometimes it's hard to identify exactly how a bad marriage w some good parts affect you
bec we are able to block out the memories we don't want to remember, and focus on the parts that we do
but when you see how it affects kids, it's easier to see- sometimes- how much it's affected them to see you going through something so bad
in an ideal world, parents would always be there to see their children through their bad days, but we would never have to witness our parents suffering
Me: i definitely get that. that is one of the main reasons for our divorce. i didnt want him to be a parent to my children
and we have all witnessed too much of our parents suffering that i couldnt bring myself to do that to my future children, please god
but it doesnt take away the "what ifs" that take over
Her: so as much as it must suck to be single and have the worry of always being single hanging over your head-
the answer to me is that a bad marriage is more traumatic
Me: and that as much as i have moved on and let go theres a small part of me that doesnt think ill ever be able to get over it completely
Her: i think that's something most divorced ppl would tell you if they were being completely honest
why do you think my dad hasn't given my mom a get?
Me: bc he likes the control
Her: bec to some level he's still emotionally involved
you only want to control ppl you are somewhat invested in emotionally
and love/hate or whatever are closely related and can easily turn from one another
Me: dotn i know that first hand
its funny when ppl tell me im so young. u wanna just shake them and say if only u knew what ive been thru. im sure u can say the same
Her: yeah
someone actually said at the OBGYN's office
omg you are so young to be having a baby
Me: ha
Her: i ddn't even bring up the fact that i am by far the last of my married friends to do so
Me: did u tell her that ur friends are having their third?
Her: i was like- i've been married 5 yrs
me: yeah preaching to the choir
Her: moved halfway around the world
Me: and what did she say
Her: and had my husband go nuts, go to rehab, and work through sobriety
i didn't answer her
i just kind of nodded
it's not her business
but as much as age is a factor in some things
in experience i've always felt old
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