Wednesday, December 26, 2012

thought provoking convo



  • Her: so what's his haskafa now?
    me: seems to be frum but not in a box
    her: vague but ok and i don't know if this is too personal to ask before even meeting, but how much did he take out in loans to go to school?
    me: yeah i dont know that much. well from my understanding he works so he's paid for most of it
    her: and what are his prospects for actually getting into med school?
    and he got money from the armybec- med school is about 9 years- so 10 years from now he'll be done
    not horrible as it sounds- but still- we'll be 36
    Me: prospects meaning schools? or money? grades?
    haha 36 thats not freaky at all
    Her: you barely get anything from the israeli army
    Me: i think he got 10k
    yeah i obviously dont know that much about him
    and im not such a fan of the whole med school thing but im willing to give him a shot
    Her: for sure
    just wanted to give you some of the q's i learnt are impt abt med school specifically
    Me: thanks
    i def thought of u when i found this part out
    he was just the first decent guy that came up
    so i couldnt just blow it off
    Her: med school sucks even if the guy makes it thru
    you would need to support the two of you for at least 4 yrs
    since you only start geting paid in 5th yr
    Me: yeah yeah sounds like super fun
    ugh im never gonna get married
    ;PPPP
    not frustrated in the least
    ;PPP
    Her: and if you had kids, you need to realize he wouldn't ever- even after school- be able to do a 50/50 split of the parenting
    listen- i'm not saying it's wrong
    i'm saying you really need to be honest with yourself if that is a lifestyle you could not be bitter about
    Me: no i agree with u. its not the life style i want but is that a reason to say no?
    Her: yes actually
    Me: if everything else matches up (not that i know that for sure)
    Her: you were married once to a guy who committed himself to a lot of other responsibilites and it made you miserable when he only came home for a couple hours each night where he was actually awake
    Me: for me a definite no is to someone learning,
    but this? im not sure
    Her; for some ppl that's fine- but you got really depressed- and obviously there were other issues- but this is a biggie
    doctors can't be there for you whenever you need them to be emotionally
    Me: yes bc those few hours together were miserable, but had we gotten aliong and had mutual repsect for each other and actually appreciated each other, those "other' activitied wouldnt have bothered me as much
    Her: they have one of the highest rates of divorce cuz of this
    Me: haha
    Her: it's not a joke
    maybe you fought more bec he wasn't around as much as you needed
    or maybe thst really had nothing to do w it
    but just really think on it bef getting involved
    Me: iim not really laughing
    Her: ppl rationalize a lot once they're actually in a relationship
    Me: truthfully i dont have the answers
    Her: you can't until you live it
    me: yeah i know
    sigh
    Her: but you can know yourself enough to think about how much you need the other person to be available to you to be happpy
    it was the thing i hated the most about moshe wanting to go to med school
    Me: i agree with that. and i also know that im a totally dif person than i was first time around
    my needs are totally different.
    Her: i'm pretty independent- even within our relationship
    Me: yeah i hear
    Her: but i have been sick as balls throughout this pregnancy and i would've cried my whole way through it if i was always alone
    and i really don't want to be a single parent within a marriage
    Me: well im glad u have him now. thank god for small miracles
    Her: speak to z
    she struggles with this a lot
    b'li ayin harah
    Me: i guess ive just really adapted to being alone all the time, so the thought doesnt phase me as much
    maybe im desensitized
    Her: it's dif when you know you're alone
    it's easier- mentally- to be a single parent (sometimes)- then it is to be married but doing 90% of the parenting
    cuz you keep expecting the other person to chip in, but they just aren't capable
    did that make sense?
    Me: for sure
    her: like- you keep thinking that they can pick up the kids from school if you're sick, or show up to their school functions, or help plan a party- but they can't
    Me: it just doesnt make me feel any better
    Her: speak to z
    she would know more abt the struggles of this type of lifestyle than me
    and then you can make an educated decision to get involved with this guy
    i'm not trying to be super negative or tell you this is a bad idea
    Me: i actually thought about z last night
    Her: i'm trying to lay out the facts of this situation- so you can go into it with real expectations
    Me: but i think in the end of the day, theyre one of the greatest couples i know. i dont think shed give up her life w s. i think its a long run kind of picture
    i honestly have no expectations
    thats one of my problems
    Her: true- but i know she's miserable right now
    to the point where i would say she may be clinically depressed
    Me: really?
    thats bad
    Her: i'm not a professional
    Her: and shes having a third
    yeah but u have enough knowlede about it
    Her: but she seems so down and she's always bringing up how hard it is when i do see her
    Me: yeah i noticed that
    Her: it's not a question of whether at this point she would give up her life w s
    it's a question of- if she could have all the info she has now abt how it would really affect her mentally, would she have tried to find someone else
    Me: the question is would i want an amazing husband like shua, knowing what life would be like
    i dont think she would
    Her: also- part of the amazingness is how understanding she is
    like when he comes over alone on sundays to watch the game for 4 hours
    Me: so ur saying that i might not be that understanding?
    Her: that would not go over well w me
    Me: he still does that
    yikes
    nor me
    Her: yes i am saying you are not z
    and neither am i
    Me: right
    Her: someone else's good marriage would not be mine or yours
    it's where the idea that there is someone for everyone comes from
    Me: true true
    ugh why do i have to go through this again
    Her: fuck if i know
    Me: sometimes i wonder if it would have just been easier to stay in my marriage
    not that i had much of a choice
    Her: no
    i can tell you that in no uncertain terms
    Me: my memory is def tainted
    ha
    that sounds like a good poem
    tainted memory
    Her: boo
    Me: yes?
    Her: there are ppl who may have had some hope for a happy life who chose to get divorced instead
    you guys did not
    you wanted dif things
    you needed dif things
    and you were both miserable bec they were uncompromisable
    Me: but its funny (or not so funny) that a lot of things that i didnt want then, are things i want now
    Her like sending your kids to TI?
    Me: ha
    Her or wearing tights in the summer?
    Me: i wonder if he'll even send his kids there
    Her: or having a husband who learns for two hours a night
    Me: it was more the point of lack of being able to compromise on anything
    Her: some things cannot be compromised
    and somethings can be
    maybe he compromised on not freaking when you wore flip flops and not hose in the summer
    Me: listen, if i met a guy and he wanted a chavrusa and he was really smart and was actually learning and gaining something. and was able to bring that home and share it at our shabbos table, i wouldnt be so against it
    what bothered me so much is how unproductive he was in his "super" frumness
    Her: but both of you knew that he wanted a aidel super frummy
    Me: and yet he listened to rap and had no problem watching a naked woman in a movie
    Her: either way- my point was to drive home that the grass was not greener over there
    Me: i couldnt find justification in that
    the grass was def not greener
    Her: case in point- how much weight did you gain during your marriage?
    bec that is one of the greatest indicators sometimes
    Me: my point is- would i rather be married and unhappy or never get remarried
    and im not sure
    Her: those shouldn't be the trade off
    and miserable w someone is always worse
    i cried way less when i was back in america and moshe was in rehab and i was contemplating divorce, than i did while i was still in israel
    being w someone who is supposed to be someone who is making your life more joyous, and who is doing the complete opposite, is worse than being alone
    and maybe i don't have complete authority to say that since i didn't end up choosing divorce
    but i have seen enough of my parents, and other who chose divorce, and others who chose to stay married
    sure- there are good parts even within a bad marriage
    Me: i cant tell u what authority u do and dont have. but i dont think uve seen both worlds completley
    Her: but how screwed up are our friends whose parents have the worst marriages but chose to stay together?
    Me: and yes obviously like i said my memories are tainted. i remember only what i want to remember.
    Her: i know i haven't
    that's a coping mechanism
    i'm still married bec i'm the same way
    Me: and for me to think that i will never be married again is a very painful thought that i try and avoid
    Her: i can't imagine
    it's hard for me as your friend
    but it was also painful to see you going through the last part of your marriagte
    the goal is to be happy an fulfilled
    and the reason i bring up kids a lot- is bec sometimes it's hard to identify exactly how a bad marriage w some good parts affect you
    bec we are able to block out the memories we don't want to remember, and focus on the parts that we do
    but when you see how it affects kids, it's easier to see- sometimes- how much it's affected them to see you going through something so bad
    in an ideal world, parents would always be there to see their children through their bad days, but we would never have to witness our parents suffering
    Me: i definitely get that. that is one of the main reasons for our divorce. i didnt want him to be a parent to my children
    and we have all witnessed too much of our parents suffering that i couldnt bring myself to do that to my future children, please god
    but it doesnt take away the "what ifs" that take over
    Her: so as much as it must suck to be single and have the worry of always being single hanging over your head-
    the answer to me is that a bad marriage is more traumatic
    Me: and that as much as i have moved on and let go theres a small part of me that doesnt think ill ever be able to get over it completely
    Her: i think that's something most divorced ppl would tell you if they were being completely honest
    why do you think my dad hasn't given my mom a get?
    Me: bc he likes the control
    Her: bec to some level he's still emotionally involved
    you only want to control ppl you are somewhat invested in emotionally
    and love/hate or whatever are closely related and can easily turn from one another
    Me: dotn i know that first hand
    its funny when ppl tell me im so young. u wanna just shake them and say if only u knew what ive been thru. im sure u can say the same
    Her: yeah
    someone actually said at the OBGYN's office
    omg you are so young to be having a baby
    Me: ha
    Her: i ddn't even bring up the fact that i am by far the last of my married friends to do so
    Me: did u tell her that ur friends are having their third?
    Her: i was like- i've been married 5 yrs
    me: yeah preaching to the choir
    Her: moved halfway around the world
    Me: and what did she say
    Her: and had my husband go nuts, go to rehab, and work through sobriety
    i didn't answer her
    i just kind of nodded
    it's not her business
    but as much as age is a factor in some things
    in experience i've always felt old
  • i've gone through a lot of stuff- either bec of my parents or bec of moshe- that most ppl never go throughMe: yeah me tooHer: yeah you haveMe: that why we get each other ;PHer: and thank god- at the point i'm at now- despite us being the poorest we've even been- it's the most right time for us to be having a babyMe: that greatim glad to hear thatits the happiest ive ever seen uHer: m's doing well, he's working a lot, he's studying for the DAT and doing really well on his practice tests- so his prospects are way better than they ever were w med school and i walways wanted him to be a dentistthey work 9-5 4 days a weekMe:  nicesounds much betterHer: so he finally has the wherewithal to actually be a totally functional parenthe's super involved and comes to all of my appt's cuz he wants toMe: and btw the answer to how mich weight i gained. from the day ni went to israel till the day we got separated i went from 150 to 230 poundsHer: and for the first time in our marriage it's a true 50/50Me: thats amazingi feel like a proud mamaHer: that's the only memory you should hang on to if you ever doubt your decisionsMe: yeah i guess ive forgotten all thatand not that im that much skinnier now but im way healthier and feel sooo much betterHer: anyways i'm techinically working so i've gotta do something bef the end of the dayi know it's tough now- but my hope for you- and for all of my friends- married or unmarried- is to find someone who doesn't make your insecurities worseand who doesn't mind your personality flawsMtrue truethis was niceher: your- the collective youme: thanks for always being the voice of reasonim always here for u if u needher: thanks for not getting mad like my sis in law did when i spoke to herme: not at alli hope to not be stupid second time aroundor as stupid

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